Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211

03/11/2008 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 15 BOARD OF FISHERIES CONFLICTS OF INTEREST TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= SB 296 CRIME VICTIM COMPENSATION FUND TELECONFERENCED
Moved SB 296 Out of Committee
*+ SB 278 VETERAN INFO ON PFD APPLICATIONS TELECONFERENCED
Moved SB 278 Out of Committee
+ HB 284 PFD ALLOWABLE ABSENCE: FELLOWSHIPS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
        HB  15-BOARD OF FISHERIES CONFLICTS OF INTEREST                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced  the consideration of HB  15. [Before the                                                               
committee was CSHB 15(RES).]                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:23:01 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MCGUIRE  reminded  the committee  that  Amendment  1,  25-                                                               
LS0114\K.2,  is  before  committee. She  suggested  a  discussion                                                               
about  whether  to  incorporate  the  Board  of  Agriculture  and                                                               
Conservation into HB 15.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:24:17 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRENCH  said the  memo  from  the sponsor  dated  3/7/08                                                               
persuaded  him [not  to]. The  primary function  of the  Board of                                                               
Agriculture  is  authorizing loans.  The  majority  of the  board                                                               
members   must   be   involved  in   commercial   production   of                                                               
agriculture,  and currently  the members  must recuse  themselves                                                               
when  dealing  with a  loan  that  affects a  direct  competitor.                                                               
Access  to  proprietary  information  is  integral  to  the  loan                                                               
deliberations.  The  amendment  would  allow  direct  competitors                                                               
access  to  the  information,  which   is  unlike  the  Board  of                                                               
Fisheries that enacts a multitude  of fishery regulations and has                                                               
nothing to do with authorizing loans. That is a key difference.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MCGUIRE  noted  that  Senator   Green  had  objected  to                                                               
Amendment 1.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN removed her objection to Amendment 1.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MCGUIRE withdrew Amendment 1.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE moved  to adopt  the  Senate committee  substitute                                                               
(CS) to CSHB 15, labeled 25-LX0114\L, as the working document.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH objected to ask what changed in the CS.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL  SEATON, Alaska State  Legislature, explained                                                               
that after the  bill passed the House, some laws  had changed, so                                                               
now it refers to the correct citation.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:27:32 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN said she is  concerned because it allows those with                                                               
a vested  interest to deliberate.  They are not recused  from the                                                               
discussion,  only from  the final  vote.  She asked  if the  bill                                                               
gives them voting rights.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON   said  not  if  they   have  a  financial                                                               
interest.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN said  the fisheries board doesn't  allow the public                                                               
a second chance  to object to what someone has  said. So she will                                                               
object to passing it from committee.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if she can offer any changes.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN  said  the  whole  purpose of  bill  is  to  allow                                                               
[conflicted members] to deliberate.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said  yes, to bring their  expertise to the                                                               
Board of Fish and to allow them  to deliberate - but not to vote.                                                               
There are two parts to the  bill, and the second part narrows the                                                               
definition of family.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  pointed out  that former  Representative Tillion                                                               
said when he  was fisheries czar under Governor  Hammond that the                                                               
members  of   the  board  who   knew  about  an   issue  couldn't                                                               
participate.  That's  a  disservice  to  everyone,  "if  you  let                                                               
everyone  participate  who  knows  nothing about  the  area."  He                                                               
supports the bill.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:30:36 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN said it has been a  long time since she has been at                                                               
a Board of  Fish meeting, but the discussion  portion is critical                                                               
and can't  be refuted by anyone  in the audience. If  the counter                                                               
position  is  not  part  of   the  discussion,  then  a  balanced                                                               
viewpoint  can't  be  attained.  If   the  board  opened  up  the                                                               
discussion again  - which they're  not going  to do, it  might be                                                               
different. The board  works now. If board members  don't know the                                                               
other side  of the story  on a  particular issue then  they can't                                                               
get the information from anyone in the audience.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE asked  Representative Seaton  if he  thought about                                                               
opening it again for public comment after the deliberations.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said this  isn't meant  to get  into those                                                               
technical details. Issues come before  the board and are assigned                                                               
to subcommittees  for full  discussion and  public participation.                                                               
Afterwards, the subcommittees come  back and make recommendations                                                               
to the  board. The  board takes public  testimony first.  It then                                                               
goes  into   committee  deliberations.  When  the   committee  is                                                               
deliberating they can call an  at-ease and then take questions to                                                               
other people. A  conflicted member leaves the room  and cannot be                                                               
part of the deliberation process.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:33:54 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MCGUIRE noted Senator Green's  concern and asked if there                                                               
is another step that can be added to allay her concerns.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JIM MARCOTTE,  Executive Director,  Board of Fisheries,  said the                                                               
board could change  the steps in the meeting. It  is not dictated                                                               
by  statute. There  are three  opportunities for  public comment,                                                               
including during sign-up.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked  if the sign-up is directed at  the agenda or                                                               
does it "bring forth a fact that someone might not know?"                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARCOTTE said it's open for  all of the items that are before                                                               
the board. During  the committee process there is  ample time for                                                               
public  involvement because  there are  public panel  members and                                                               
two or three board members in  the committees. It may spend up to                                                               
a day  going through a  list of a  couple of dozen  proposals. So                                                               
each proposal gets  a thorough review at that  time. They explore                                                               
compromises and amendments.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:36:16 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN asked if non-members of the panel can testify.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARCOTTE  replied it's primarily  through the  panel members,                                                               
but the format  is town-hall style, so members  are liberal about                                                               
including any  discussion if  someone has a  burning issue  or if                                                               
they have  expertise. It  is very  open at  that point.  Then the                                                               
final  public  input  is  responding  to  the  written  committee                                                               
report. The reports  are presented and then there is  a period of                                                               
about a day  or two when the  public can respond. It  is a common                                                               
practice  to  catch board  members  in  the hallways  and  during                                                               
breaks. There  is lots of  opportunity for public input,  but not                                                               
once the board begins its final deliberations.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:38:03 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GREEN asked  if the  department [of  fish and  game] can                                                               
answer questions at that time.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARCOTTE  said the  department is  at table  as staff  to the                                                               
board.  The  department,  as  a  whole,  is  available  to  field                                                               
questions. Enforcement representatives and  the Department of Law                                                               
are there too.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS said  he attended meetings for  about five years,                                                               
and  it  seems  that  everyone  knew  everyone  else's  business,                                                               
including  everyone's personal  investments. Is  it dangerous  to                                                               
pass this bill and give a member of the board too much power?                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARCOTTE said neither the  department nor the board has taken                                                               
a position,  but generally  the board  is comfortable  with this.                                                               
Members  feel   that  their  ability  to   participate  has  been                                                               
infringed  in certain  instances. He  doesn't think  the bill  is                                                               
potentially  harmful.  This isn't  a  sweeping  change because  a                                                               
conflicted member  still can't vote. Allowing  discussion is seen                                                               
as a  positive step,  as is narrowing  the definition  of family.                                                               
There are  checks and balances  to keep board members  from being                                                               
self serving. The  chair can rule someone out of  line, and there                                                               
is the risk of getting crosswise with the public.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:41:41 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GREEN  said  she  appreciates  his  comments  but  since                                                               
neither  the board  nor the  department  has taken  a stand,  she                                                               
considers them to be personal.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
RICKY  GEASE,  Executive  Director,  Kenai  River  Sport  Fishing                                                               
Association, Soldotna,  said HB 15 "does  a good job in  terms of                                                               
the legislative  stuff, because it  actually lasers it in  if you                                                               
personally have  the financial  interest. I  think that's  a very                                                               
good portion  of this bill and  I think that should  go forward."                                                               
He  is  concerned  about   allowing  participation  after  public                                                               
testimony. There is  plenty of opportunity for  board members who                                                               
are  conflicted out  to talk  to other  board members.  "But when                                                               
you're in  a public process and  you're asking for the  public to                                                               
trust an  unbiased opinion on  a decision, and you  have somebody                                                               
up  there  with  a  financial interest  -  a  personal  financial                                                               
interest - and  you may say we're just getting  information - but                                                               
you can  direct department staff through  questioning and through                                                               
the absence  of questioning on certain  issues - you …  make sure                                                               
that  your side  of the  argument is  better represented."  Board                                                               
members may not see that as a  problem at this point, but it will                                                               
diminish the trust  from user groups. Now all user  groups are on                                                               
equal standing -  "you can say your share and  you're in front of                                                               
unbiased board  members, and if  somebody had a  direct financial                                                               
conflict, they're not part of  that deliberation." There is trust                                                               
in the process  now and all the information gets  out there prior                                                               
to deliberation. When there isn't  information, the board is good                                                               
about taking a  break and getting it. The goal  is to ensure that                                                               
when the public  leaves a meeting, they feel that  the process is                                                               
good and unbiased, whether they like  the decision or not. "But I                                                               
do  think you're  tainting the  process  by putting  a person  in                                                               
deliberation with a direct financial interest."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:45:30 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MCGUIRE held HB 15 in committee.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                

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